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Branching Pre-Renewal out of working branch (Using Git)


Kisuka

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So... coming from eAthena, one of my biggest pet peeves was the fact that we kept supporting the txt database stuff instead of removing txt and only supporting mysql. Now, rAthena is great! Loving the dev work done so far. Again though... it seems the same issue is occurring over here...

Why does rAthena support pre-renewal stuff? I get it, it's an option for those that don't want to use renewal. But isn't the "r" in rAthena for Renewal? Not to mention, Ragnarok Online does not have a non-renewal option for the game. The current version of RO is Renewal and Gravity doesn't seem to have any plans to revert to non-renewal. So why are we supporting old content?

Is there a bad opinion of completely removing pre-renewal and only supporting RE? Instead of cluttering up the source, database, and scripts with all this pre-renewal stuff, why not just port it to a "Pre-Renewal Final" branch. This branch could be worked on as a 'stable' pre-RE branch of athena (technically that sounds like eAthena :P).

Just curious if this is ever the plan. Doesn't seem to make much sense to support old content in an emulator which is supposed to be kept current with the official game.

Does anyone else support the removal of pre-renewal from rAthena?

Note: After some discussion it's more of an understanding to branch pre-renewal out of the working branch into it's own branch rather than remove it completely.

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I do only cause I don't like all those preprocess macro for renewals :

- They make function longer wich reduce readability => lower maintenability

- Ain't fully validate by buildbot or really any automated tests (e.g r17082) (we should imo try a compile wich each define per week)

but in other hand :

- Many improvements also concern pre-re like new script_command, group system etc...

- It will requiere someone to merge those change in the other branch even if that ain't so long * (also if could check other emu)

-- Kinda the same as trunk/stable/tag actually we're on very basic versionning.

- Support/bug/share may be annoyed since right now people don't often precise if pre or re and also work with line number. (in short mod will need 1diff for pre and re since line won't match..)

nb :

-- People will cry like A-style change since removing this will certainly broke many diffs

--We can't summerize eA is the pre and rA renewal. Since that not the only in diff they got even if it's the more noticeable. (until kinda recent eA fix was integrate to rA but that stoped due to some generation of errors).

--- Quite kinda the same as people saying BrA is same as rA but in portugese, they add thing on they're on too so it's not.

ps :

Precedent "debate" : http://rathena.org/board/topic/74215-p-re-vs-re-do-we-really-need-both/ even if the subject slide a bit.

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I would prefer a branch to macros, but I definitely would not like to see pre-RE dropped, since lots of the servers still using it.

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Branching completely would be nicer. I don't like the db/re/ or db/pre-re/ even if this means more work.

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A lot of our updates apply to both pre-Renewal and Renewal. From a developer standpoint, updating multiple copies is incredibly annoying (the period when the npc/ directory was completely split pre-re/re was plainly nightmarish).

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I totally agree with Kisuka

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Again, I get it's meant as a "feature" for people to use if they want pre-renewal stuff but at a certain point you need to stop worrying about supporting old content and move past it. Otherwise the source will suffer / become ugly. Solid foundation & source > user requested features.

As an emulator for an MMORPG, athena is classified as an "educational project" and states that it does not recommend using it to run a private server. Since this is a project to be the most accurate to the original RO as possible, supporting pre-renewal technically does not fall under these guidelines; as official is no longer pre-renewal.

Again, I highly recommend branching pre-renewal off into a different branch, remove all RE content (dbs, classes, scripts), and only commit bug fixes to it.

Heck, looping in another suggestion here. If we switched to github, you could mirror eAthena and have that be the pre-renewal branch and still be able to contribute to it on github (since everyone can contribute there), then you have rAthena be the renewal branch project.

Sorry, my developer nerd side is raging hard about this :P

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I think removing pre would be best from a development standpoint, so long as eAathena is up and running server owners can go there for pre.

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I don't agree with this since some of the servers still uses Pre-renewal system, also a lot of players still want to play in a Pre-renewal mechanics and eAthena isn't that much active anymore compared before but I do agree on creating a different branch for it.

Which might help separate the workload between the developers.

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The Why not both meme is showing in my mind. xD

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Final batch? Makes the whole thing easier I suppose.

Edited by ScriptingPhailure
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I agree on creating a separate branch for the two. Many servers enlisted on ratemyserver.net is running Pre-Renewal while on rAthena. So the removal of Pre-Renewal would be a nightmare to those that are on it. :3

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i agree , make full renewall :) maybe if want pre renewall can use eAthena :)

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Gravity, through Warp Portal filial, has reverted back to non-renewal game. So, Ragnarok Online does have a non-renewal option for the game. They called it "Ragnarok Classic".

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Gravity, through Warp Portal filial, has reverted back to non-renewal game. So, Ragnarok Online does have a non-renewal option for the game. They called it "Ragnarok Classic".

At this point Warp Portal is not keeping to the original "RO". They've pretty much become an official custom server. They grab aegis scripts from all the other official ro servers and use them to build their own up. Not to mention providing a non-renewal option is extremely against the image that Gravity is trying to push for.

Athena is an RO emulator. We emulate the original RO, which is kRO. This mean iRO is not an example to lead by.

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But, it is still official, and it is still Gravity, and rAthena is following iRO, against your words saying there is no official option for pre-renewal and there is no following for iRO.

Why would you like to banish pre-renewal game mode? Peopleperson49 at least says to split pre-renewal from renewal mode to "optimise" rAthena's developers work (wich is not guaranteed under somebody gives the needed research information in bug tracker section).

You are asking for complete removing and banish pre-renewal mode from rAthena, since "'r' from rAthena is for Renewal". In other words, you area saying "if you want to play pre-renewal mode search for other emulators".

Removing pre-renewal from rAthena would split community and push out those players who likes pre-renewal content, players that also support it in all the ways. Also, would make those players to search for other options instead of rAthena, even instead of emulation, since there is an official and a very good option to play pre-renewal mode, Ragnarok Classic.

I just see it:

Player: "rAthena, I want to play pre-renewal mode, can you support me?"

rAthena: "No, I don't support pre-renewal because 'r' in rAthena is for renewal"

Player: "but, I want to play pre-renewal mooooode, please heeeelp mee"

rAthena: "No, search for other options, go to official servers if you want to play Classic Experience"

Ragnarok Classic server is a very good option to play, it is pre-renewal, it is free to play, it has the official way items and skills works, it has a good cash shop system, and also it is official...

I like rAthena, and I'm starting to love it, because rAthena is making the unthinkable, merging renewal and pre-renewal content in the same emulator an also make it to coexist in harmony. I want to support that, i'm playing classic to give needed info in some bugs in pre-renewal skills.

Why would you like to revert all that work and effort to finish a very suitable option to play? I don't think it is an enough reason just because "r" in rAthena is for renewal.

This has been discussed in the past, i don't know why people hate pre-renewal mode :(

Edited by Deep Forest
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I'm not asking for complete removal. I'm asking for it to branched out of the main repo which should be developed for the current version of RO, which is renewal.

Athena, historically has never followed iRO. The only aspect that is taken from iRO is the english translation of script files. All formulas, packets, heck even the client private servers use is all kRO based.

Having an option for pre-renewal is fine as long as it's managed / implemented correctly :/ Having it under the same branch as renewal becomes a hassle. At a certain point the source is going to be FILLED with if else statements to see if the person has RE enabled or disabled. This makes the source nearly unbearable to read to a developer.

Not to mention, give it a few more months, after Gravity has finished adding even more RE related scripts to the game, the database and scripts directory is going to be HORRIBLY messy. Basically what we're trying to do is support two different games in one emulator. This just doesn't work, it's horrible in terms of development.

(I say different games because nearly all mechanics have been changed between Pre and RE, it's basically a different game than RO was).

It would be much more efficient to branch pre-renewal off into it's own place and let RE be the main development project. Pre would still get bug fixes, but it should have a set cap on what client it should accept (non RE client) and only contain non-renewal aspects.

Renewal should have all pre-RE stuff removed, the script directory needs to be organized (which I'm in the process of doing), and only RE clients should be accepted to connect.

We're at a point in my opinion where we need to stop supporting such old content and start moving toward organizing the source and making sure it's supporting the most recent version of RO.

The whole point of MMORPGs is they move forward with updates, not backwards. If RO was able to survive without RE, gavity wouldn't have implemented it to revitalize the game. There is no point in trying to support both game-types in one emulator. It's completely disorganized and is much harder to maintain a clean source.

*cougheAthenasuckscough*

Too risky to use AEGIS :P

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Just remove pre-renewal if admin and player want to get pre-renewal let them use a final branch or eathena.

kRo just drop pre-re more than 4 years ago. it's time to separate this. And rAthena mean renewal Athena. Pre-renewal is now old and make difficult to admin to make a good job. I repeat drop this pre-renewal.

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Just remove pre-renewal if admin and player want to get pre-renewal let them use a final branch or eathena.

kRo just drop pre-re more than 4 years ago. it's time to separate this. And rAthena mean renewal Athena. Pre-renewal is now old and make difficult to admin to make a good job. I repeat drop this pre-renewal.

*cougheAthenasuckscough*

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OMG i can't handle "if's" im a noob!

xD i like rAthena as it is, im 16 years old and i can understand all those ifs.. well.. also most of the spanish users like pre-re and go ncheck an spanish server ranking you'll see many of them pre-re .. and as pre-re usep i really love that rAthena can handle two jobs, since i can swith betwen re and pre-re and it's more organized than having 2kinds of emulator

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If rAthena gets split into 2 branches, then we loose the ability to easily mix pre-re and re stuff.

For example re mechanics, but pre-re exp/drop-rate formula.

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If rAthena gets split into 2 branches, then we loose the ability to easily mix pre-re and re stuff.

For example re mechanics, but pre-re exp/drop-rate formula.

Why would you even want that? Mixing the two types together causes the game to become unbalanced all to hell.

Not to mention, it's much easier to add in small stuff like that with a custom diff for your own server than making a diff to remove all pre-renewal stuff.

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If rAthena gets split into 2 branches, then we loose the ability to easily mix pre-re and re stuff.

For example re mechanics, but pre-re exp/drop-rate formula.

Why would you even want that? Mixing the two types together causes the game to become unbalanced all to hell.

Not to mention, it's much easier to add in small stuff like that with a custom diff for your own server than making a diff to remove all pre-renewal stuff.

Last time i checked, there were several servers mixing it in several ways...

And it's much simpler to change a precompiler flag (no coding skills required) than to mix and match code from two different branches.

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Not to be a spoil sport but wasn't this already in the suggestions section and wasn't this idea already rejected?

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