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Angelisk

Blacklist

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We should have a blacklist around, so server devs/owners could keep informed before purchasing something. It would prevent a lot of misunderstandings and keep everyone warned about bad intentioned people. Yes I know all downloads are monitored and so on, but there are still people around advertasing their services trough PMs/Facebook/etc. Once I even heard something about a staff member of brA stealing others, it's not our obligation to prevent that but would be cool with others if we could.

 

I just read something about a guy that stole other on our blog... here - I wish things like that could not happen anymore...

 

I can take care of the blacklist if needed or even you guys, or even the commu itself, I think we can handle it.

We could keep it up-to-date with those guys that stole paid services from other servers to make their own (like Olrox's Maps, KamiShi's Palletes and so on... there are plenty guys that does that.), and also the ones that are selling things made by others (again we can take KamiShi example, cause there are guys that already did it in the past with him/she).

 

Please think about it... I would do my best to prevent bad intentioned ones from taking advantage on others.

 

 

 

Thanks for reading,

Patricia

Edited by Angelisk
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Yeah, those scammers are still around taking adventage from others and should be punished in a way or at least warn others. This is a good initiative, of course there will be more methods to procced and apply this and i hope it will be really considered.

 

It's not the first time something like this happens and won't be the last, but at least we can try to reduce the scammed members.

 

This directly affects any project, because if they get out of money they can't invest in its server project or get real paid services.

 

They just shouldn't continue scamming as much as they like without a punishment at least in the forum community.

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Yep that's it, or should we support RMS HoS only? I think would be good for many of our guys that are selling and buying products if we could do it here, but supporting the RMS would also be good.

Edited by Angelisk
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you cant really control it if they are promoting it outside the forum.

 

if you blacklist their name ... they can change their name anytime..since it's just a nickname...

 

if admin show all the information like IP/Email of blacklisted users ? i think this would violate the privacy issues..

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So we can't do anything agains them? they will be out there free to scam as much as they want? i don't think so.

Publish their ip, emails, nicks and so on may be an issue with their privacy, but, ppl here don't need to see their ip or email, they may see only the nick (because that is displayed to everyone), well yeah as you said they can just change nicks, but i believe that warning ppl to try to not take outside paid services because they may find scamers is a way prevent this.

Also, isn't there an option to ban them so they can't keep track of members to scam? some Staff members may also see what other nicks they got so they would be unmasked, and that can be displayed too because it appears in the Display name History on each perfil of members.

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Besides what Kido said we could blacklist servers or services groups, what would be a great step.

 

We could even do something bigger showing the official sellers of everything, (like who works with palletes and the profile in many commus and so on), but the main thing that needs approval is about a blacklist.

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I +1 this idea, Not only have i been scammed, But I've also been accused, but for providing the wrong description of work, So i'd hope it had some type of approval process.  But this is an awesome idea.

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Thank you for your approval sir Akkarin! How I said we can for sure handle it by our own, I have no problem doing it by myself (ofc if you could give me moderator permission for that topic or something like it would be great, but it's not a must).

Could you please inform me about the forum rules I should be awarned of? (maybe a link to some topic) Also where can I post it?

 

Let's decrese the % of scammers around.

Thank you!! 

Edited by Angelisk
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yey, who will make the list? /heh

I have not experience with scammer, except ingame when still play RO. /meh

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If you don't mind, I wouldn't mind leading this topic.(The Hall of Shame)

I could easily organize a nice topic format and we could build a real list instead of something that would be just a list of names.

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If we could work together, would be great, what do you think about it? :D

 

@Akkarin

Many thanks!! Will start working on it :D

Edited by Angelisk
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If we could work together, would be great, what do you think about it? :D

 

@Akkarin

Many thanks!! Will start working on it :D

Due to some unseen events I'd probably only beable to help and not make it myself lol

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Thanks! huh with the help of everyone i think we will not totally stop the scamming but yes reduce the numbre of them, there are some cool ideas o;!

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Honestly, the "Hall of Shame" in RMS was a horrible idea and still is. I really don't feel that having this sort of thing on an emulator project is such a great idea.

 

Well maybe it will be a little different here in the emulator community, because we are going to talk about specific ppl. Like Emistry said, Admins./Staff won't be able to provide IP or e-mail and so on, but what about an expansion of the Term of Service and Forum Rules? where ppl who contact Paid Services or if Services Providers contact ppl through these projects, they will be warned that if enought evidence if provided for a customer that got scammed, information such IP, e-mail and maybe name will be displayed in a specific forum or section (HoS thread9, so they will warn other members. If they are not going to scamm then what's the problem by accepting such terms/rules?

 

It's a crime, when criminals get captured they say the name completly, nationality and even the age.

 

Or, will be necessary a separe page that can implement those rules and terms?

Let's say that i want to contact X member Paid Services, before hiring it, i would ask "are you registered in this page? i would like to see your resume &/or reviews", that way ppl would at least notice and see if it's a good idea to hire them.

 

If it's accepted, then maybe projects and the page may interact together to warn members, the page will capture them and the forums would just provide a list with few details. Of course, forums will just say "Recommended by this page to not hire/contact X services", so forums won't get involed in any kind of problem (?)

 

For me, the idea doesn't sound that bad. It's better than doing nothing and let the scammers do whatever they want.

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Honestly, the "Hall of Shame" in RMS was a horrible idea and still is. I really don't feel that having this sort of thing on an emulator project is such a great idea.

I must agree to Jman here. I remember there was one on RUNE, and it had a reason to be there (avoiding the release of sprites in those places). Besides, it fit the type of community RUNE was. I can't find any reason to have one in rA though. We have had took action against scammers but we have never had a blacklist in any athena community. I just feel it would be a pain in the neck to moderate properly such a list.

 

In the other hand Kido, we would have a lot of problems regarding the Data Protection laws, and I see no easy way to handle such data and apply such treatments to it.

 

If you want less risk, then sign a contract. I do so with customers outside of the RO scene. I don't expect anyone to trust me nor I'm going to blindly trust my customers. When accepting certain payment terms (that translate into 100% risk on you) without even signing a contract, don't blame the scammer.

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In the other hand Kido, we would have a lot of problems regarding the Data Protection laws, and I see no easy way to handle such data and apply such treatments to it.

 

If you want less risk, then sign a contract. I do so with customers outside of the RO scene. I don't expect anyone to trust me nor I'm going to blindly trust my customers. When accepting certain payment terms (that translate into 100% risk on you) without even signing a contract, don't blame the scammer.

 

 

Well seems that signing a contract like you said would be the best o: may i pm so you may lend me a hand in making one o: ?

 

Huh a Blacklist for at least will give the members an idea of how they may be treated and how many scammers are around there, maybe a blog-like telling the experiences of scammed ppl may help too.

 

There are many ideas that i think it may help. Thanks everyone for correcting me and answering to this o: with that effort i would like to hear ideas too, to do something agains this, the sign of a contract like DevilEvil said it's just a great idea.

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In the other hand Kido, we would have a lot of problems regarding the Data Protection laws, and I see no easy way to handle such data and apply such treatments to it.

 

If you want less risk, then sign a contract. I do so with customers outside of the RO scene. I don't expect anyone to trust me nor I'm going to blindly trust my customers. When accepting certain payment terms (that translate into 100% risk on you) without even signing a contract, don't blame the scammer.

 

Well seems that signing a contract like you said would be the best o: may i pm so you may lend me a hand in making one o: ?

 

Huh a Blacklist for at least will give the members an idea of how they may be treated and how many scammers are around there, maybe a blog-like telling the experiences of scammed ppl may help too.

 

There are many ideas that i think it may help. Thanks everyone for correcting me and answering to this o: with that effort i would like to hear ideas too, to do something agains this, the sign of a contract like DevilEvil said it's just a great idea.

The text of a contract differs between countries, but there are general characteristics I could suggest you too add to your contract. There is always some type of risk when working with someone who's outside your country, but signing a contract is always better than doing nothing. Otherwise, choose favorable payment terms :P. Feel free to drop me a PM if you have any question.

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Yeah it might be a bad idea as the-final-say on whether or not you join a server... But as a forums topic it's a great idea. I personally would love to read all the juicy drama that takes place inside the RO servers throughout the webs. :) I think if done right it could generate a lot of new traffic.

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I'm not sure if it's worth keeping track of names. I mean, it's quite a job for nothing. They can register a new account in a minute or simply change their names. Not to mention false accusations.

 

Maybe an experience sharing topic would be more appropriate, so others can learn. Share the stories about what to avoid, what to check every time, and how you were fooled.

 

I'm not against the list, I just simply don't see how it would be effective... We could write names on lists and burn them in public, but that wouldn't make any difference. It might help your anger, but for that reason we may start a flame topic instead :D

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I'm not against the list, I just simply don't see how it would be effective... We could write names on lists and burn them in public, but that wouldn't make any difference. It might help your anger, but for that reason we may start a flame topic instead :D

We could actually be accused by the scammer for violating the Data Protection Act.

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I'm not against the list, I just simply don't see how it would be effective... We could write names on lists and burn them in public, but that wouldn't make any difference. It might help your anger, but for that reason we may start a flame topic instead :D

We could actually be accused by the scammer for violating the Data Protection Act.

 

I don't see how. The service would need a non-disclosure agreement and list everything that users are not allowed to discuss openly or publicly.. other than that it's nothing to do with us (which is why i've said staff will not get involved with this project) - therefore they can accuse us as much as they like, it won't change anything.

 

Oh, I was actually talking about what could happen if rA decided to make an official blacklist.

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Even if the service includes an NDA, any treatment you apply to the data of other people (emails, real names, etc.) must be communicated to those people, as well as having consent to apply that treatment. Actually, the real "blacklists" in which those who don't pay their debts are included, must have permission from those who are included. For example, if you don't pay your phone bills, you can be added to those lists by the company who you are in debt with (if they warned you in the contract you signed with them that you could be added to those lists if you don't pay your debts). Otherwise, it's illegal.

 

As far as I know (and correct me if I'm wrong, since I may be), the very same laws would apply to us if the administration of rA published and maintained such a list (with personal data such as names, emails, etc.).

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No No No! hahaha

 

Its boring to have that kind of drama! have you seen all the fights in RMS forums cause of that "hall of shame"? its boring!

 

RMS is a site for servers to be promoted, so you can expect this kind of stuff. But that would not be fine here in rAthena, since we should focuss on development and not server adversitment or social stuff.

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No No No! hahaha

 

Its boring to have that kind of drama! have you seen all the fights in RMS forums cause of that "hall of shame"? its boring!

 

RMS is a site for servers to be promoted, so you can expect this kind of stuff. But that would not be fine here in rAthena, since we should focuss on development and not server adversitment or social stuff.

 

Then don't read that "drama" if it bothers you that much lol

 

rAthena has a Paid Service section, the blacklist maybe shouldn't be posted for the whole forum, also the posts/threads. It would belong only to the specific area and would be monitored only in that area. It's not like "we" or "i" wants to see a lot of drama about this and that and bla bla, but just come to think, let's that a guy has a good budget for its server, he is planning to get some paid services and then that guy gets scammed... well maybe at the first time the guy won't quit, but what about a second or third time? that will discourage it and maybe will make the guy quit (that would mean too that the guy won't acquire scripters, devs. mappers and so on), so, what happens when someone quits? no server no owner no future potential devs. or scripters. rAthena's future is in the hands of a few people, we can't let scammers be free out there.

 

About the "create a new acc./nick" we can give some suggestions to people, just a few that i came to think right now (just a few to mention)

 

Suggested points to check out before hiring or getting paid services:

  1. Check if the service provider has an approved post in the Paid Section of rAthena
  2. Check if it's a member of rAthena and has at least 100 posts (agains "create a new acc./nick" )
  3. Check if the service provider has an Official Web Page of its own
  4. Check if it has guarantees
  5. Before accepting or starting to hire the services of the provider, make clear the points to treat about the service
  6. Check their own rules if they have
  7. Make sure the service provider accept your rules, otherwise it's not recommended to hire/contract them
  8. Ask to the service provider if it has references (must prove it)
  9. If you have friends or know someone who already hired the paid service provider ask him/she if it would recommend it
  10. Ask first the price and compare it to others so you may make sure that is not overselling or exploiting you

Just a few ideas, i think with more meticulous thinking it can be a good help to newbies

 

Don't get me the bad idea and sry if i sound rude (or stupid xd), it's not my meaning to offend someone (almost always happens to me when i don't want to @[email protected]), it's only that i can't accept the idea of a big and good community like this to being unable to do or at least to try to do something agains scammers. I would take charge of it if no one cares, i will deal with anyone and with the entire "drama" of the posts/topics.

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