P-RE vs RE? Do we really need both?

[Lemongrass]

Warnings depends on compiler and on wich architecture. like gcc won't complain if you declare a new variable in middle of a scope {} while MSVC will complaint he want it at begining. (or more recent the ret unintialise you can check the buildbot result for that)

The forget part is not good but doesn't mean neither that the src wasn't test, well not the final release one but it was probably tested on localbranch then forget while merging for commit.

I know that it differs from compiler to compiler and architecture to architecture. It was not ment to be a flame post, but rather to somehow mention it. I know it is a trunk branch and it is no problem for small bugs or mistakes to be in there. I do think that the team does an excellent job, I just wanted to point out, that lately those commits are getting more frequent and for the developers to maybe have a closer look again before hitting the commit button.

I also know that if you do a commit, you can miss out some of the lines or files that have been changed, but as I said it is not really the point of the topic, it was only to mention it. So please do not bother with it anyways and do not see it as a flame post.

The Devs do an excellent job continually updating all the files and fixing bugs as they appear! They have other work and lives outside of rA and that is more why I started this topic. Its much easier to update, fix, and test one platform instead of two. Since I have been here I have been very impressed with the level of professionalism from everybody involved!

As stated above I am also very impressed about the development team doing their job. And since you pointed out that they are on a really high level of professionalism already, it is very difficult to get their level even higher. I know that you want to get rid of the whole PRE-RE branch, but that would mean a loss of a lot of users and with them a whole load of test persons and servers that use rAthena and I think that this would not really benefit rAthena or their developers at all.

If you have ever scripted anything Lemongrass then you know how easy it is for the smallest thing to slip by the cracks when you have a lot of other stuff to manage at the same time. Or even if you don't crap happens! I don't know how many times I have fixed a script to find something else wrong! I generally keep very detailed logs of what I fix and I have some of my more complex scripts in the version 10.?+. Devs are challenged by the fact thats hundreds of servers rely on them all the time! Cutting down on what they have to do goes a long way!

Yes I do have scripted some things and I also know that mistakes can happen easily and I did not mean to offend neither the team nor you with my post. It is something I just wanted to mention, because just like you I think that rAthena is currently on a high level of professionalism and these commits are something that damages this reputation.

I know that there can be mistakes and I do not want to blame them for anything at all, it is just my personal opinion since I am also working on this kind of jobs in real life. So I am sorry if I offended the rAthena development team or you, I did not mean to.

[Lighta]

no biggy then =)

I don't want subjet to slip, I was just thinking in a way to improve tests like automatique test of command after a rebuild etc..

[Peopleperson49]

I don't necessarily think that we need to get rid of P-RE. This topic is more of what does others think. If were going to have both then I like the way it is set up now since it does share a lot of files. I was more thinking about how much faster we could advance RE if it was the only focus. I can see both sides of the coin. I know a lot of people that use P-RE because of the skill imbalances. I myself use a RE server, but by simply commenting out the NPC scripts for the thrid classes that problem is fixed. I did however removed the renewal exp/drop rate restrictions in renewal.h. Most RE changes affect the 3rd classes and the previous classes seem to use the old formulas anyway.

Peopleperson49

[kyeme]

I dont agree for dropping pre-renewal in rAthena.

[Peopleperson49]

Thats good to know kyeme, but the point of the topic is to tell why you don't agree! Thanks for replying.

Peopleperson49

[EvilPuncker]

because there are ppl that still uses it, like me.

[Peopleperson49]

That is true but couldn't you just eliminate the 3rd classes by commenting out the jobchange scripts and then make one src file that allows you to do what the renewal.h (or just leave this one) does. I don't like the renewal exp/drop rate restrictions myself so I removed them. Basically now you have a P-RE server. The non-3rd classes still use P-RE calculations anyway. Is it necessary to have two seperate versions?

Peopleperson49

[EvilPuncker]

I do use 3rd classes, but with some things from renewal disabled and some custom src mods I did in order to use the re db

[Peopleperson49]

Why not use the renewal version then and just disable those features you don't want. The only other real difference is the the P-RE and RE is the db folder and such are different. But there is no more official P-RE so those are never getting "officially" updated again. New mobs are created on RE and unless somebody goes to modify them for P-RE. So just keep a backup of the P-RE db folder (or it can even save a copy on rA) and use it to replace what is in the RE db folder. Again doubling work is not necessary. If people want to use P-RE it will be just like the people that choose to use classic RO (no trans classes either). They need to know what they are doing or update. Dedicated people are willing to work and learn, I am not completely opposed to telling people that if they don't have a good grasp on what they are doing then they don't need to make a server! It sucks when players put a lot of time into a server, just to have it crash from issues or lack of ablility...

Peopleperson49

[Relzz]

i don't agree.

rAthena have moore updates than eAthena.. fixes.. and that is why like it .. it also supports 2012 clients and eAthena not

[frenzmu06]

i don't agree.

rAthena have moore updates than eAthena.. fixes.. and that is why like it .. it also supports 2012 clients and eAthena not

ofcourse rathena has more updates (what should eAthena update?, Client/DB?), zzz. eAthena is PRE-RE, that's what the emulator was intended for/old mechanics stoped it's development (so does eAthena) when Renewal came so nothing to add on except bug fixes and features not yet added on it that where present on PRE-RE

[Peopleperson49]

That goes back to rA being a renewal emulator. You can't update and maintain the 1:1 goal with something that no longer changing. But rA is maintaining both P-RE and RE. Their doing a great job, but should they keep dividing their efforts when we all know that eventually P-RE will be completely phased out. Even RMS will phase out P-RE in the future. I was around when the trans classes came out and I have seen this exact debate before! Which emulator still maintains classicRO (no trans classes)? The same with be with P-RE so how long should we hold out for?

Peopleperson49

[java]

i dont agree since theres so much ppl still using pre renewal rathena, including me. i think SVN space wont take 2 GB for rathena emulator.

Edited November 23, 2012 by java

[Zephyr]

Not.

[Michi]

I think delete pre-re it's a good point. I think this will help dev exemple MATK/ATK/DEF/MDEF formula should be more easy to do if they don't need to put some ifdef ect.. things on the code. Only need to recode this part There is also Homunculus ATK/MATK/DEF/MDEF formula that have change too.

And my own opinion is that pre-re should die now. Server should focus on renewal. Renewal was officialy start on june 2009 on kro main and july 2008 on kro sakray. I think it's time to move on. I have heard for now 3years renewal is bad. But renewal is here and thats all. Ragnarok official release date was on august 2002 so 6 years of non-renewal and 4 years with renewal almoste half of ragnarok life with renewal. Thats why pre-renewal should die. And something else before renewal all npc on eathena was comming like 3-4 month after they implementation on kro now we have 2-3 years lates on rathena. iRo pRo and other official serv allready have them now and not us. So sad...

But I really want to thanks dev for all their works and all their time <3<3<3<3<3<3<3

[Peopleperson49]

Those are very good points and I agree fully, but what do we loose if we remove it? At first I asked my self if it worth loosing those few that refuse just update to renewal. But I feel that if a server is dedicated to their players they will either update to renewal or stay just as they are now. If things are going good as they are then they don't need to update anyway. They will actually be more stable by not updating, because the potential for new bugs grows as things change. Which is why having two seperate versions to update is harder. I am still on the fense over the issue, even know I more push toward removing it.

Peopleperson49

[java]

because the potential for new bugs grows as things change

agree for this, make pre-renewal FIX no changes anymore , so dev team can focus for renewal

[phebs]

fix all issue for pre-renewal and then you can leave it to move on for renewal, anyway theres a lot ppl enjoying class gaming but we need to move on too

[Peopleperson49]

If rA could make a final stable version of P-RE that they no longer updated that would save a lot of work for the Devs very quickly. I think it should be seperated from the RE and in its own SVN. I believe that it should still be supported for bugs and other issues, but as for any further updates they would stop and the focus should be fully on RE. Nobody says that P-RE has to be removed from rA, just a new seperate SVN where it can remain for anybody involved. Remove all the P-RE stuff from the renewal src files. By doing this they keep P-RE and also mininize the overall work they have to do. Spliting them will take some work initally, but after that it all goes away. Those that choose to use P-RE still have it, and rA can truely maintian its 1:1 goal with the official.

Peopleperson49

Edited November 25, 2012 by Peopleperson49

[java]

indeed

[Michi]

Any admin opinion?

[Ragno]

Just throwing away pre-renewal does not optimises the developer's time. Time is relative, if has the fix, will be fixed. There is right now 140 issues that need more information of how to works. If you want to help them with their work, select one of those and go to official servers to do some research about the official mechanics needed to know, don't throw other's work and effort to the junk.

I'm very impressed with rAthena's work with also pre-renewal server. I like it and I will help them in all what I can through bug tracker section.

Edited December 25, 2012 by Deep Forest

[Maki]

Currently there are no plans to split Pre-RE/RE; thanks for all the input provided in this topic though!

Deep Forest nailed it though:

Just throwing away pre-renewal does not optimises the developer's time. Time is relative, if has the fix, will be fixed. There is right now 140 issues that need more information of how to works. If you want to help them with their work, select one of those and go to official servers to do some research about the official mechanics needed to know, don't throw other's work and effort to the junk.