r17251: Multilanguage Support

[Leeg]

I think I'd be easier to open a collection on google-doc and enable edit to modify file there.

(So we don't have to deal with n link for n langage and you can more or less compare to each other).

 

@Leeg

the blue parameter in that case is useless it was just to say pvp

don't change mapflag to @go @warp those are 2 different concept, (nowarpto will also prevent emergencyrecall,@jumpto... etc so no I don't think it's a good idea)

rest I like document presentation =)

 

I changed it because in the documentation of those files it says that it prevents @go, and @warp respectively.

 

nowarp.txt:

//===== Description: =========================================

//= Disables use of @go to a map.

 

nowarpto.txt

//===== Description: =========================================

//= Disables use of @warp to a map.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Leeg

[Lighta]

you right will need to change those documentation  thanks to bring this up (didn't know we had that xd)

acutally we probably need a file that list all mapflag and effect.

[Cydh]

you right will need to change those documentation  thanks to bring this up (didn't know we had that xd)

acutally we probably need a file that list all mapflag and effect.

yeah we need it.

[Euphy]

Switched to Leeg's translation in r17305, as recommended by Daegaladh and DevilEvil. FRN and CHN translations also updated in this revision.

[Jarek]

map_msg_rus (1436-1476)

[Leeg]

Thank you very much for using my translation.

 

By the way, I could adapt my Excel table to hold the whole localisation project, so that everything is in the same link/file and editable by everybody.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Leeg

[jaBote]

First of all, thank you for your alternate translation and congratulations for getting it commited to the repo. I just hadn't time to update it from like 2 weeks ago and I left Tragedy translate it on his own awaiting for my revision, so I'd also thank you for lifting that limitation from me. This translation also seems to be quite better than mine and Tragedy's.

 

But I'm sorry I didn't feel that your criticism was constructive at all. This sounded like bashing our previous job as you started attacking our translation with very little or no knowledge about our translation premises. I've also corrected errors from the original English text and avoided literally translating as much as I could, which you "wisely" didn't state. I also left comments untranslated because you wouldn't mess with those files if you hadn't at least basic English knowledge, don't you think?
 
What you haven't done is checking where and how those strings are used in the code (as I personally did) so there are some poor syntax output messages like these ones:

426: El nivel de tu cuenta no te permite %s al jugador '%.*s'.
427: El servidor de acceso está apagado. No se puede %s al jugador '%.*s'.
428: bloquear
429: bloquear temporalmente
430: desbloquear
431: desbloquear
432: cambiar el sexo de

Messages 428-432 are compounded into the first placeholder of 426-427. Putting message ID 432 into any of 246-427 leads to incorrect Syntax in Spanish, which doesn't happen in our translation. IDK why they start with uppercase on it, though (maybe autocorrect?), as I made sure they were lowercase because I knew that, but it's syntactically correct. By the way, try not to translate 'block' and 'ban' to the same words as it's confusing. Also the main reason I removed the 'blue' word is that I knew it was useless beforehand, after checking the code, which you didn't. I took no risk on removing that.
 
I shall provide some more constructive criticism as you didn't by doing a quick check on your translation, because I wish best for rAthena and try to help as much as I can, not looking after the future of my private server as your translation seems to do.

• Why that obsession to translate into Spanish words we don't even use in RO? As I stated before, most Spanish-speaking server users still write (or even pronounce in voice servers!) 'job', pet', 'warpear', 'recallear' and so, lots of times! Isn't it better to just adapt those voices to what they said instead of artificially making a translation?
• Even further: you've translated 'card', equip positions and even mapflag names! It'll surely confuse users whenever they change to international servers and admins whenever they try to script and/or use mapflags! It would make much more sense to translate the rest of things you left untranslated, as users might not be used to words 'quest', 'GM' and 'Game Master', for example (and job names at this point of course). You've come up and kind of imposed your own translation. I don't know if anything of this this goes with the purpose of your upcoming server, but I'm sure I'm not the only person who find this an overtranslation, and as such it's clearly deficient. Therefore, this translation seems to serve your comunity much better than common Spanish-speaking RO servers and the 'Spanglishized' RO slang we Spanish communities have coined over the years.
• There are some incorrectly translated words, as translating 'attribute' to 'atributo' in string 985. There's no meaning in official RAE Dictionary of 'atributo' which mean what you want. Correct translation is 'elemento', definition numbers 2 or 12. This was a false friend in this particular context. Also avoid the use of 'listado' (in some lines) to denote a list as it's also incorrect. Try to use 'lista' instead wherever possible.
• In message 510 you've forgot to put anything that says the mails the user has are new (which you would qualify as weird and dangerous, isn't it?). I'd also translate 'email' to 'correos' as in definition 4. Putting 'cartas' is correct but just seems weird, as they were sent by traditional mail, but in my opinion I'd prefer not to translate it as in the first point on this list.
• Last and most important thing: I don't know what kind of revision your or your friends may have done, but it's unforgivable for a serious translation and/or revision to leave out the Saxon genitives (the 's things, you know) as they're not at all used in Spanish. I couldn't even believe a C2 could make such huge mistakes at that level. This is no professional. Take a look at your translation:

  // Anuncios de consecución de objetos poco comunes y robos de objetos.
  541: '%s' ha conseguido %s's %s (probabilidad: %0.02f%%)
  542: '%s' ha robado %s's %s (probabilidad: %0.02f%%)

  And then look at ours:

  // NdT 541-542: queda raro, pero hay que mantener el orden de los placeholders... (Quick translation for this post: seems weird, but we have to leave placeholders in order...)
  541: '%s' ha matado a %s y ha conseguido un %s (posibilidad: %0.02f%%)
  542: '%s' ha robado a %s y ha conseguido un %s (posibilidad: %0.02f%%)

  Which is better, isn't it? It's not perfect though, I'm thinking right now it may be corrected to 'ha matado(541)/robado(542) un/una %s y ha conseguido un/una %s'. And well, 'probabilidad' (in your translation) is much better in this context than 'posibilidad'.

For the aforementioned reasons, I hereby state the following:

• There are at least as many deficiencies with this translation as ours had.
• This is not a General Spanish translation as it was intended when me and Tragedy spoke to Euphy: this particular one is an es-ES (Spanish-Spain) specific translation.
• There wasn't any effective revision of this translation as it was proved before.
• Daegaladh's word on Leeg's translation is rendered invalid for its qualification (and his check was either uneffective or a lie) as they work on the same private server because of the possibility of this translation being made with a hidden interest (which is what I must suspect).

And I kindly request a new check and comparison between the two translations by a third person, which presumably won't have any affiliations (as Tragedy and me tried to do when making our translation, we joined for this and are not related at all), to make sure translation is accurate, impartial and useful as regular server users of a normal Spanish-speaking community. This person would be capable of choosing whatever translation he likes or even an intermediate version of the two. Optionally, he could also tell both of us what his reasons and concerns are for a given message.
 
Or well both translation teams could join efforts or make constructive criticism as I just did so that we both can make a nearest-to-perfect but yet usable Spanish translation (since it's proven Leeg may know more English than me, but It's clear I know more Spanish than him), but this needs collaboration and no selfish movements as I've seen in this topic before.
 
Here is when you make your decisions.
 
P.S.: This is only my opinion, not Tragedy's, but I somehow feel his opinions can be pretty much the same as mine.

Edited May 1, 2013 by jaBote

[Euphy]

jaBote, thank you for the very detailed response; I didn't mean any offense at all by switching off from your translation, but was only going by opinions of other staff members. In any case, you are always very welcome to submit changes (preferably entire files or differentials) to what's in the SVN and post in this topic. Or, as you've stated, it would serve the project best if you two could work together on a translation.

[Lighta]

Hey Capuche, canal translation note. (I'll writte in lighta english just so everyone could follow/input)

 

1438: (That info appear when player is trying to connect to chan, so idk I found the previous translation more descriptive)

1438: Vous ne pouvez pas rejoindre le canal '%s' car vous en êtes banni.

(ye I know it was changed in the english one but I still prefer old one)

 

You sometime use switch parameter name like :

"1456: * %s ban <#nom_canal> <nom du personnage>
1457: -- Banni le joueur spécifié du canal."

1456 is the command, and 1457 his explanation but in cmd we say "personnage" while we use "joueur" in description I think we should use the same either "joueur" for both or "personnage", (same parameter are always use in man to not confuse user but on other way using synonym quite describe more)

 

1461 : -- Débanni le joueur specifié du canal => Le joueur '%s' n'est plus banni du canal '%s'.  

(we have player and chan name as parameter might use them)

 

1464: Bannissement du joueur '%s' échoué. => Bannissement du joueur '%s' impossible.

(That true the command failed but in this way I think he may misslead as that command had a possibility of succes while it's ain't the case. That command will always fail on that user since he have the channel admin permission so that why I prefer "impossible" then "échoué", actually there a little chance of succes cause that will appear when user is offline too. offline or you don't have permission, so idk "Impossible de bannir le joueur '%s' car vous n'avez pas la permission requise ou le celui-ci est hors-ligne" ??)

 

1468: -- Débanni tous les joueurs bannis du canal spécifié. => Déban tous les joueurs bannis du canal spécifié.

("Debanni" seem weird with plural or maybe Debannissement, yeah adv woud fit)

 

1474: -- Joindre le canal spécifié. => Rejoindre le canal spécifié

(idk I just found it more common, you met people but you rejoin a chan)

 

that my input on r17305, thank for the translation and sorry for late feedback =)

[Leeg]

I was going to post something thankful to Jabote for his corrections until I read this:

 

Quote

Daegaladh's word on Leeg's translation is rendered invalid for its qualification (and his check was either uneffective or a lie) as they work on the same private server because of the possibility of this translation being made with a hidden interest (which is what I must suspect).

 

 

Sadly, I won't now.

 

Regarding the saxon genitives, yes, I misread them because I thought these were variables. But these stand corrected now.

And with regards to the 'attribute' word, I believe you should read RAE entry for that word.

 

I am not going to say anything about the other things because your arguments appear to be dogmas to me, as the "ban" and "block" translation, which I found it to be fine because the concepts of "bloquear" and "bloquear temporalmente" have nothing to do between themselves.

 

Anyway... thanks, I think.

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Leeg

[ratalaika]

@jaBote

Pfff that's kinda pathetic... Leegs traslation is way better, just because it's a real traslation without the weird words like "warpear" or "recallear" maybe the spanish people will understand their meanings but that does not mean that they seems unprofesional and done quickly. As a spanish speaker and RO player I'll preffer a hundred times more a server with propper words or a non traslated server than a spanglish traslated server.

PD: Yeah you maybe right the DAE interest in the leegs translation could be related with world domination of... What the hell men! It`s just a traslation that won't go further than a simple words on a server. I think that kind of attack just reflex how badly desperate you are in winning this argument.

Edited May 1, 2013 by ratalaika

[Leeg]

Jabote and I have been talking this morning and we've finally reached and agreement. Both of us have apologised for being rude to the other. 

 

Hopefully, this discussion will end here.

 

 

 

By the way, if you're still interested in having all the translations in one single Excel table we can do it.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Leeg

[jaBote]

Well, I knew this was generating a bit of drama (as it's almost always generated when Spanish is present), but there are lots of points of view, and as I told Euphy on this post:

Anyways, the only thing I know for sure is that there will not be an agreement on a common translation because there are lots of points of view on how things should be translated (the correct or the Spanglishized translation and which message is to be translated what way) and you won't be willing to make room for at least es-ES, es-MX,
es-CL and es-AR translations so I'll try to make the most neutral translation I can.

 

This is my point of view (and got support on it as you can see). I preferred myself a translation in actual Spanish words than a Spanglishized one (and you can see in my previous post I liked Leeg's but remarked its flaws), but I defended a Spanglishization because it's more popular, and so I thought it was better for a general Spanish translation. People who know me also know I'm not for smashing the dictionary (not without reason) and I also proved it on my last post.

 

I've also come with the thought this wasn't benefitting all servers in particular because as I stated on the other paragraph of this post, regular Spanish-speaking servers use that Spanglish and then I thought it may be detrimental for these. I also stated I'd like to make a joint-effort translation with the good points of both of these, not impose mine and Tragedy's and thus not willing to win any (inexistent?) argument. So it's time to stop the drama now.

 

I didn't take any offense from Euphy when changing translations, but for the seemingly unfriendly replies from Leeg and Daegaladh, anyways nvm this is not a problem anymore. As Leeg said before, the discussion is over, as we both have reasoned and apologised each other (we agreed our mutual posts didn't seem friendly for neither of us). We'll try to join efforts and provide best translation possible whenever we can. I do also feel sorry for the bit of drama generated in this forum.

Edited May 1, 2013 by jaBote

[DevilEvil]

I believe I could be considered a neutral voice in the Spanish community (have no affinity to any server).

 

I myself recommended Leeg for a simple reason: Proven real experience and qualification. In most companies, they follow the very same way to select their workers. I appreciate your effort, but if we can have a professional translator with good qualifications we should select him over other translators (there is no favouritism at all).

 

My views on this:

• There wasn't any effective revision of this translation as it was proved before.

Work together if you all are able to have a professional attitude and don't get hurt by this recent change. Don't try to be the best, just kill the ego and try to work together

[Euphy]

as i already said to Lighta, map_msg_rus.conf use wrong encoding (UTF8). in game i recive messages in incorrect encoding + map crush after relogin with langtype = 1. If anyone can upload this file in ANSI encoding, please do it.

Switched to ANSI (Windows-1251) in r17309. Tell me if it works.

 

By the way, if you're still interested in having all the translations in one single Excel table we can do it.

I don't think it's necessary, since some people are probably more comfortable with Pastebin and it's easy to upload differentials, too. Thanks, though!

[Jarek]

Switched to ANSI (Windows-1251) in r17309. Tell me if it works.

It works

[Mikado]

As an objetive point of view, Leeg's translations are far superior than the old Spanish ones. These were mixing some sort of hispanicized English, also, there were numeruous grammar mistakes.

 

However, I think there are some mistakes in Leeg's one. For example:

 

662: Debes alejarte como mínimo %d celdas de ese NPC.

 

A more accurate translation could be:

 

662: Debes estar al menos a %d celdas de distancia de cualquier NPC.

 

But that's my opinion.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Mikado

[Leeg]

Thank you, next time feel free to add a comment to the table (right click in your mouse) so that I receive a notification and I can fix it.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Leeg

[Capuche]

Update the french translation after feedback ! Thanks Lighta !

 

http://pastebin.com/pbTCRamh

[Euphy]

FRN translation updated in r17314.

Added a new line:

1454: Color set to '%s'.

[Cydh]

Updated for IDN, follow up svn17314

[Capuche]

Update french translation follow up r17314 and r17317

 

http://pastebin.com/pbTCRamh

[Jarek]

Updated map_msg_rus (r17317)

http://pastebin.com/U9X69JyA

[Euphy]

Updates in the last 3 posts applied in r17319.

New lines from r17317:

//etc
378: Eleanor is now in %s mode.
379: Item Failed. [%s] is cooling down. Wait %.1f minutes.
380: Item Failed. [%s] is cooling down. Wait %d seconds.
381: Skill Failed. [%s] requires %dx %s.
382: You're too close to a stone or emperium to use this skill.
//383-389 free

Jarek: you missed r17314, line 1454.

Thanks to everyone for keeping updated!

[Jarek]

Jarek: you missed r17314, line 1454.

Oops, my bad.

1454: Установлен цвет '%s'.