[Thanks meter] & [Donate to me] Features for Developers

[Olrox]

Hello.

First of all, I encourage to consider this suggestion, and please, read it all! sorry I know I talk too much sometimes, but this is serious.

this is not a -personal request for me- *I mean I'm not a dev*. It is a suggestion to keep or even to awake the interest of motivated Developers. I know that actually, the progress now is really good, but before we fall with unmotivated developers, as eA was... then, maybe we can add something like I will explain above.

I have allways asked myself about, of where developers find motivation to continue working. I know, some people just enjoy to contribute and to help others for free. But all we know that time is gold, and by soon or later, these devs have forcefully to work with other tasks ... that means a sad goodbye to the project.

I will list the 3 ways the posibilities how devs gets can get something in exchange for all their effort and time by contributing here:

• Paid Services, I know there are 1 or 2 developers that by having that extensive experience by contributing for the emulator, they are trusthfull to being hired for paid services. For me, this is great, But, those are not all the devs we have, as also this is more like a personal work for someone.
  
• Paid Downloads.This is really a good idea. For me one of the bests actually to contribute by a low tax for the whole eathena as another half to the contributor... but, the bad part is, that I'm sure no dev has sell something more than 2 times on the download nexus. And for a code/CP extension/script that have a price around $5 - 10$ that is almost nothing.
  
• Make their own paid emu. Yeah all we know the history that eAmod. Well if you ask me... how it is possible that someone that works by the effort from a free source earns, maybe 10 or 100 times much than anyone that codes here? Lets face it, yes this happen and... how devs may feel by being on this fence and working for free all this time? I don't know. What do I know is, that, when all these people realize that this doesnt worths the effort and we start to see more than 1 eAmod, then, this will be the second end of this project
  

Anyway the history of that emu, is another thing (emu that wouldnt exists if the license FREEDOMS would be respected by line since the beginning).but for now I will focuss about the main fact to add a motivation to actual devs.

First, My suggestion is to implement a [Donate to me] , button that might appear under the avatar or easily recognizable area of each core, db & script aproved developer.

I will post an example of this. Taken from the xda-developers forum. A random thread from someone that released something for my phone that I love with my heart -- http://forum.xda-dev...d.php?t=1604731

I know I could look for better examples than that guy, but there you have an idea. Also that kind of forum is about doing releases, and self projects of people that does mods, etc.

Anyway When you hit the button, it is really simple *but maybe hard to be implemented unless there is a mod or extension for IPB* , you are redirected to the paypal payment to do a donation to that guy. *A small % tax can be added to this funds to the rAthena host*

Honestly, when I see threads like:

1.- http://rathena.org/b...-online-client/

2.- http://rathena.org/b...ine-in-browser/

3.- http://rathena.org/b...ding-system-18/

And I see all those people posting their updates, their changelogs, their releases, and THEY GET NOTHING for all their time... Why??? I'm sure that there are plenty of guys out of there that allways download their releases... I'm sure that if they see a donation link visible on the profile of the most active contributors around the community they will support the contributor.

Second, this suggestion is about the [Thanks Metter]

I believe this one is about a reputation feedback *something like the +1 feedback we have* but only for threads. Not for posts.

This is like a reputation specially for contributors. So it is like a possitive feedback history of one guy, so, by seing a high metter reputation well... this encourage a lot to make a donation, because everyone notices that this guy is serious.

[Edited] I just realized that the automatically thing I posted before, will not work. anyway. Continue reading.

==================

The good points by implementing this

• Contributors will have a reason to not only release something *that is the easy part* the hard part is, a reason to maintance a release or a task here.
  
• There will be surely more applies to developers positions and people more interested to it.
  
• We will focuss and we will ride the interest back again to a work diriged to the community in a good way. There will be more releases, more people interested with working for public.
  
• It can be added a tax to the rAthena itself. For hosting or whatever.
  
• The progress of rAthena will increase a lot. By being maintaned by releases as a high quality just almost like the paid ones. So, private projects as eAmod I listed before, will not be the big deal, so and they will not longer earn an Improper profit just the one that merely deserves. For now It doesnt has competition, of the enourmous power of what a free software is.
  

In case this suggestion will be applied. I suggest the following hierarchy of admin. team to be approved to have these feature enabled:

• Administrators in all the 3 areas. All. They allways work and I believe some of them they have projects for ex. Ind with his new Ceres.
  
• Developers and Script/DB developers. Reasons are obvious.
  
• Community Contributors. [Edited]there are Community contributors that I know that have their open source projects releases on the community. Projects that are active.
  
• Moderators? maybe I'm not sure. but I believe there are a lot (like graphics mods) that work a lot and they work with self realeses for public.
  

That is all. Please comment about it.

Maybe the feature of the thanks metter is a bit complex. For me it I think for now the donate to me, would be the one we need urgently.

If there is a valid reason that you think that This will not work please, post it. Thank you.

[manabeast]

this idea was greats..... nice idea .. = )

[elcontrol00]

I don't think it will work,about the donating.. But it's a great idea. I admire u

[Rikimaru]

As you said,there are Developers,who just love to contribute to a project,which they like.I love seeing all the Updates,which the rAthena Staff releases.

Also I think it's not that all the Developers want money for their work. Some just enjoy contributing into the project,so I think the Developers should be asked if they want this or if they don't want to see this function. Anyways I totally agree with you,because the rAthena Staff really has a hard work to do for us rAthena Users and there should be something we can give them,but I don't know if it is money what they want. Maybe the Developers would like a Credit on RO Servers,which use rAthena. Maybe Someone could script a "rAthena Credits NPC",which shouldn't be removed,so Players of a few RO Server's can check out the rAthena Developers on that NPC,for their hard work. Sure that Donate to me Button would be great,but I don't know if all of the Developers like the idea. Hopefully they do,so we could give something to them for their hard work,but they should be asked first.

+1 for your Post Olrox!

Edited June 7, 2012 by Rikimaru

[Bahmut]

I like it

[Linkin Park]

I support this Nice suggestion.

This will somehow motivate more the dev team.

[Feistz]

Completely agreed with Donation button. Go for it please.

[Mystery]

Although we agree, the final decision is based on Jguy's and the rest of the Administration team.

[Maki]

/me likes the suggestion but since it's up to Jguy according to Mysterious,,,

/me walks away with less of a burden

[KamiShi]

I agree too! That'd be a way for them to make money, getting motivated without discouraging other developpers (like eAmod)

[JoWei]

I just feel the Paid Service wouldn't work since rAthena is an open source community but Donate button and Thanks meter are interesting features nonetheless.

But as Rikimaru said, not all the developpers works with money in mind, there's those who actually have fun coding and would code things to help others free of charge.

[Feistz]

My suggestion is make it like a savings or piggy banks. All donation will go to this account and will be distributed among the developers. A person (Jman) or group (Developer Admin) is responsible to this account. He or they can choose on how to distribute the money or use it. I think this method is more easy and convenient than users have to donate separately according to their favorite developers.

[Olrox]

The idea to divide one volunteer donation in -parts- is really better than the one I was proposing.

For the main fact that a centralized donation system awakes more the interest of people interested for donating, than donating to only one guy. So, by the common interest that globaly the members have to -donate to the project- then the funds can be divided for potentional developers.

The bad part is that the funds will be divided. I would ask if you think as a estimated % if donation amounts are enough to open a possible divition to other developers or community contributors.

I would have to only suggest an addition (if it is possible, of course, if not, just forget it). To add the reputation? or rating? or the thanks metter to each name of each of those devs you cited as an example. It would be really necessary the member rating or a summary of each member activity (like revisions or files, whatever) at the time they choose one to make a donation.

Dunno if you get my idea... but in conclusion it is important to show -how active is, or how rating has- that developer as user rating stars, or thanks metter, or by top list, or any idea like that, so, the most active devs will stand out of others.

^

Is this is really complicated, forget it. And just go on, because for me, your idea is great it would work just as you explained.

@Feistz:

The idea of distributing by an administrator team, is not good. It will be hard, slow, and it will be the subject of internal disputes inside the admin team I'm sure. For ex. who will decide how to deal equaly -or not equaly- those funds? and why this guy or this team, can decide?

No! It is really better that the member, like me or like you, decides.

[Maki]

Hm, I like this, but you flatter me Mysterious. It's not all up to me.

What if, when people donate, they can divide up where and who they want the donations to go to? For example, you donate $20...

You can specify where that $20 goes to, either in part or in whole:

$5 - rAthena (General project pool for hosting, upgrades, licensing)

$5 - Epoque

$5 - Ind

$5 - Masao

Of course, amounts between developers would be private and the individual amounts a developer has collected would remain private both to the community and to other developers. We have a way in our Nexus system to apply credits to certain "customers" (i.e. any registered person on the forums) so it would make it relatively easy. That way the developers don't have to give out their Paypal or feel like they're soliciting for money for the project, it all comes to them voluntarily. Thoughts?

We'd have to impose some rules, but I think it would be pretty doable.

I disagree with this method (although the idea is nice) and would rather support Orlox's original idea. The ability for ANYONE to donate to ANYONE is what makes the idea worthwhile: there are quite a few people who release some very nice mods/snippets that are not CC/Dev/Staff (Lilith/Kamishi two examples).

As Orlox stated it would also add (a little) extra work for us to do, not really that big of a hindrance, but it would be much better if everything was just automatic. If someone decided not to give out their paypal then simply they do not have an easy way of obtaining donations or perhaps they don't want any donations for open-source work?

If someone is really determined to give that person a donation, they can just send that person a PM (or Admins a PM) stating they would like to donate to him privately and ask for his paypal. The person-in-question would then either supply their paypal or have us 'credit' their account with the donation (possibility).

[Olrox]

@Maki

Actually the original Idea I had in mind is exactly as you said. I made emphasys that at the beginning it would be better to add the feature exclusivley to devs/community contributors/admins/ but quite Honestly there are plenty of guys that works hard -not to mention all of those that we don't know that could-. They contributes a lot and they don't have a ranking as a core developer for ex.

@All

If you really want to try this serious, go ahead and try an open wide system with this feature enabled to lets say -all members-? because after all, is up to the donator for which member he considers to donate for. And for those that doesnt likes the idea, they can allways disable the feature... or, not add a paypal email on their profiles.

Obviously. We will need a rule. That no one can't ASK forcefully something in exchange for donations before realising? it has to be volunteer . Like for ex. I will post a topic, and I will say "DONATE OTHERWISE I WILL NOT SHARE THIS CODE" <=== No, we dont want this here.

I'm wondering how a system of this kind would be if it is enabled to anyone. Think about it, I'm sure that in less than a week, we will notice activity and even, new releases among the community. Beginning with the experienced guys with RO related stuff, but hey? this can even, take the atention of outside developers, graphic designers, etc. That are not involved into RO related stuff at the beginning, but with high experience, and interest to contribute.

Making the project open and more attractive to potentional people out there that can work here is what is all about open source software. Or am I wrong?

[Rikimaru]

Okay I like Jman's idea,since rAthena needs some money for the hosting service and all the other things,too,so rAthena should keep some money of the donations,too,but the Developer's,who want to get donations for their work ,should get that button,but the rAthena Devs should get that Button,not that the rAthena Users have to send them a PM,they should get that button.

[Olrox]

I must disagree with the "if someone is interested, he can allways contact one member, and ask him for his paypal"

This really remind me as eAthena.ws, a long ago I asked the same thing. I asked: How it is possible to donate for a dev? And they told me: pick your favorite dev, and ask him his paypal.

For me that answer was more like: Go figure it out yourself.

Sorry but, do you really think that works? Do you really think that people is really that interested to go for the profile, draw up a PM, ask him, and wait for a reply back , then after 2 or 3 days when this guy replies back, that guy interested will be waiting, all these time to do the payment? No.

Anyway if you will leave this as a possibility to -all members- as asking for a PM? it will be like adding nothing.... but who cares? I mean ok, leave this or don't add it openly before this will become an endless discussing about, what will be better.. or not.

Afterall the original petition was, for developers/community contributors/administrators/Moderators/Support Leaders ... In other words, all the staff. So .. just go on for the credits idea, that Jguy said? Nexus has that feature allready. And the idea to add the possibility to choose quantities to add to each developer at the time one member will do a donation to rathena, is good by the simple reason that donate to a staff member, and donate to rAthena, comes all together.

I must say that please, include all members of the staff equaly... better to not exclude anyone.

Edit: About what Jguy said about the -Permantly tax of 5$ that will go for rAthena?- is completly understandble. For me that is ok.

[KamiShi]

"Do you really think that people is really that interested to go for the profile, draw up a PM, ask him, and wait for a reply back , then after 2 or 3 days when this guy replies back, that guy interested will be waiting, all these time to do the payment? No."

I completely agree. I would have not donated if it was that much complicated.

Why not simply give the choice to donate to Rathena or to donate to a specific guy by clicking on a donate button in his profile? Donating to rathena would give us the 'donator' status. Donating to a member would encourage him to continue his free work for rathena. <:3

[Ind]

See, this is the issue I face. Ever since this topic came up, I've not been able to find a modification for something like this.

Unless you find something? Or Ind can make us something, it's a bit impossible on IPB to have this button you describe. ( at least right now )

of course i can just drop me a word > (i didn't read the whole topic so i have little idea what you want tho /me lazy).

[Olrox]

Don't forget that a "percentaje, or a -fixed value-" goes to rAthena, for each donation. (if this is possible of course)

[Olrox]

Can I ask if this is stil on going?

[Ind]

sorry for the delay, started to implement this feature. all developers who submit their paypal addresses to us already have the initial support on their profiles. example: http://rathena.org/board/user/468-daegaladh/

[clydelion]

Cool. *_*

How about the (thread specific)thanks meter suggestion? This would really motivate us(normal rathena users) to release something for the community. Its okay for us to release something to the community for free, but it would mean a lot if we can see people appreciating our work. It is also better to see a total number of thanks you points in our profile OR below/above the warning points.

[Mystery]

Why dont we just have a link under our profile (topic wise) stating: "Donate to Me!" or "Wanna Donate to Me?" which then can links to our profile or our "Donation" paypal page with Ind's integration?

[Olrox]

@Ind

First of all, Thank you very much for taking your time and enable the feature. Will do my first donation for a developer in days, guess who

About the thanks matter, yes I support that, but I think that one will take more time, because it is more complex. Hope you will consider it.

Though for now what it will be really good to add, is what he said:

Why dont we just have a link under our profile (topic wise) stating: "Donate to Me!" or "Wanna Donate to Me?" which then can links to our profile or our "Donation" paypal page with Ind's integration?

Actually the original idea of the donation button was, to be under the avatar of each dev. I know in the profile is good, but, a topic has thousands of views more than visiting a profile of someone.

Maybe the administrator, can enable this. Though if that will take more time, and if you consider is enough with the profile one, I will understand, but I believe each dev has more daily visits on their topics than in their profiles. Having both will make the feature be even better