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Official Pre-Renewal Brasilis

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(UPDATED 2022-05-16)

Unlike popular believe, Brasilis actually existed in pre-renewal, but only on bRO and jRO. Since it never existed on kRO, it is undefined in what rAthena consider "official stats".

As of today I pushed the pre-renewal Brasilis monsters stats (jRO version) to rAthena master. Originally we left the guessed values as they were, but as we now have the YAML format that allows overwriting only selected stats of a monster rather than having to copy over the whole line, it's better to have as many official values as possible already in the base file.

Now the only thing you need to do to get the bRO version of pre-renewal is to overwrite the ATK values. I've attached mob_db_bra_atk.yml which includes these changes. If you have no custom changes to your monsters, then you can just name it "mob_db.yml" and overwrite the file in \db\import\. Otherwise just copy the monster lines into the "Body" section of your file.

I originally released the monster stats already in 2013, but the jRO values were guessed based on Doddler's comment that they seem to be about "3x" as high. In the meantime jRO actually released their customized values so we know the real ATK stats now. I also fixed the ATK in my original release from 2013, but keep in mind that the mob_db.txt format changed. This monster lines in the file will only work until rAthena from March 2016. After that you will need to fix the "mode" of the monsters (see here: https://github.com/rathena/rathena/commit/55e4df14c2141f291a985c391408a045ec1b25c4) or just use latest rAthena which uses YAML format.

My old file also includes the spawns, they should still be working, but I did not test it (alternatively you can just use the renewal spawn files for bra_fild and bra_dun).

 

bRO and jRO have slightly different versions, here are the differences:

- the bRO version is the original version, but features really low monster attack, jRO considered this as too easy / exploitable and decided to strongly increase the ATK of the monsters (around 3x as much)

- bRO's field map mainly has Headless Mule's and Curupira spawning, first floor is mainly Piranha and second floor is mainly Iara

- jRO removed Headless Mule from the field map completely and added more Toucan and Jaguar spawns instead

- jRO added Thara Frog and Headless Mule to the first dungeon floor

- jRO removed all weaker monsters except Hydra on the second dungeon floor and added Headless Mule instead

 

Issues that are not 100% official because a leak is missing:

- monster modes in pre-renewal are unknown (both bRO and jRO), jRO reported that Iara was actually aggressive, however since we have no leaks on the monster modes, I simply used the renewal ones

- the spawn types of jRO are 100% official, but the amounts are estimated

Everything else should be 100% accurate.

 

bra_all.txt mob_db_bra_atk.yml

Edited by Playtester
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Awesome release. May I ask if other new update/episodes were added like this from other official servers aswell? (I mean officialy implemented in pre-renewal in some official servers beside kro)

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Awesome release. May I ask if other new update/episodes were added like this from other official servers aswell? (I mean officialy implemented in pre-renewal in some official servers beside kro)

Later episodes never existed in pre-renewal.

It is possible to do a direct Renewal -> Pre-Renewal conversion for some stats, but not for all. So you'd need to manually adjust those numbers. When wondering how to do that, you could for example do a statistical evaluation on the differences and then apply it or you could do it so that the stats are adjusted depending on how the different mechanics works (due to assumptio and hard def being strongly nerfed in renewal, you need to increase the attack power a lot in the conversion, and you could increase it so that the final damage with perfect armor and buffs stays the same). Another alternative is to understand how the original game designer of RO was thinking by looking at all his work and then just put the stats with a copy of his mindset.

Depending on the method you will get completely different results however, so I'm not sure yet which path to follow. I tried to contact the server admins of the high population private servers and work with them together on it, but they kinda ignored my e-mails, so I assume they probably want to keep their results for their own servers only.

My currently proposed solution would be (warning: the renewal stats are still wrong in rAthena for anything after bifrost):

>For monsters with level 96-160 in renewal<

Level - reduce by 30 (130 -> 100)

HP - same

DEF/MDEF - recalculated according to official formula (I wrote a converter for this)

VIT - half of renewal VIT (60 -> 30)

ATK - 5x of renewal ATK (700 -> 3500)

BaseEXP - 3x (+ 5% bonus*), should not apply to MVPs

JobEXP - 2.67x (+ 5% bonus*), should not apply to MVPs

>For monsters with level 20-95<

Level - same

HP - 3x of renewal HP (5000 -> 15000), should not apply to MVPs

DEF/MDEF - recalculated according to official formula (I wrote a converter for this)

VIT - half of renewal VIT (30 -> 15)

ATK - 3x of renewal ATK (500 -> 1500), should not apply to MVPs

BaseExp - 3x (+ 5% bonus*), should not apply to MVPs

JobExp - 1.74x (+ 5% bonus*), should not apply to MVPs

Explanations:

Level: Well in pre-renewal the max level for monster is basically 120. So for high level monsters it makes sense that they should have a lower level or else they will have too high HIT/FLEE as well as status resistances. Why I wouldn't reduce the level for lower level regions in renewal has a simple reason - players will spend most of their time above level 80 so adding a real low level region isn't really very interesting.

HP: For high level monsters the HP is pretty similar in pre-renewal and renewal at the same level. For lower level monster the HP was reduced in renewal. 3x is just an estimated value, probably could get a more accurate one. If we look at the Brasilis differences, we can notice that x3 gets quite close, though. I wouldn't mess with MVP HP at all, though. Most MVPs are quite similar in their stats if you compare renewal and pre-renewal.

DEF/MDEF: There is a fixed formula for this so not much to discuss here. Y'know that (4000+DEF/4000+10*DEF) thingy.

VIT: It was around double in renewal since attacks that deals more damage on higher VIT have been nerfed strongly. So if you revert pre-renewal you have to half it again.

ATK: In higher level regions, players can reduce damage in pre-renewal a lot stronger than in renewal, so the ATK should be multiplied with 5 to get the same final result on the damage.

BaseEXP: It's a bit tricky because you need to apply the "more exp if you kill higher level monsters" system directly to the exp in pre-renewal. Basically if you have a level 101 monster and a level 103 monster, you would want the level 103 monster to give 10% additional bonus exp. The multiplier isn't actually 3x, it's just there to give you some estimate. It is better to make this vary on the monster level the map is based on. For example you have a map with a 101 and 103 level mob and a map with a 121 and 123 level mob. I'd say multiplier for the first map is 2.5x and for the second is 3x. But the level 103 mob should be 10% more than 2.5x which is 2.75x and the level 123 should be 10% more than 3x which is 3.3x. Also if you change the HP, the exp should scale accordingly.

JobEXP: Same as base exp except that there is an official fixed multiplier for job exp based on the level which is fairly simple: For level 1-19 and level 96-160 the multiplier is 0.89. For level 20-95 the multiplier is 0.58. (If you check renewal job exp of monsters you will see a big jump in job exp from level 19 to 20 and level 95 to 96.)

If you don't want to mess so much with lower level monster stats, there is also an "easy type" version you could use, since especially around level 50, renewal and pre-renewal monsters are almost identical:

>Easy type conversion for monsters between level 50 and 95<

Level - reduce by 30 (80 -> 50)

HP - same

DEF/MDEF - recalculated according to official formula (I wrote a converter for this)

VIT - half of renewal VIT (30 -> 15)

ATK - same

BaseExp - 1x (+ 5% bonus*), should not apply to MVPs

JobExp - 0.58x (+ 5% bonus*), should not apply to MVPs

This way you can just leave HP and ATK alone and only apply minor conversions. Exp will also almost stay the same except for the 5% bonus and the job exp multiplier.

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I've always wondered about how possible it was for someone to do a conversion. I'm really impressed of your renewal to pre-renewal proposal. 

 

I know this is a custom thing, but, I'm sure most pre-renewal servers would appreciate to have some renewal dungeons just for leveling up and to have fun killing new mobs/mvp (so as enjoying new maps) . A database release like this would be awesome, in case you are considering to do some conversions as releases.

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Yes, I was actually working on that project for a while, but the problem I mentioned above still remains:

There are three different ways on how to do the conversion which all have good reasons why they are close-to-official and it's hard to decide for one. Just take Scaraba Hole, on the one hand all pre-renewal monsters above level 99 have HUGE attack at least 8000 and for renewal scaraba hole monster actually do a lot of damage, but giving them 10000+ damage makes it indeed a lot harder than in renewal. Not to mention that there is later a nightmare mode, how high do you want to put the damage there? 40000+? Kinda pointless, since players can't even level above level 99 (unless the private server raises the max level). So in the end it might makes more sense to give them ~4000 attack, that reflects the difficulty better and then you still have room to make nightmare mode harder. Or maybe use an average between both versions? Not very easy to decide.

And even trivial things like halving VIT is not so clear. It seems important so that AD is not overpowered, but the Biochemists on your server will totally complain about it, if you mess with that stat. So admins might still opt to leave it in just to not risk making their players angry.

All these things will vary strongly on server decisions and what the players want and also custom server modifications (if they have max level 255 they might want those monster be a lot stronger).

It's also possible to write a full converter via statistical evaluation. It just needs to check the differences between renewal and pre-renewal for monsters actually existing in pre-renewal and then learn by calculating average differences how much the stats are different on average for that race, size, element level and level range and then just apply those average differences on the new monster. But there are quite some monsters that got significantly changed that will make such a converter very unclean, for example the level and power and desert wolf is really high renewal, much higher than in pre-renewal, but that doesn't mean that brute fire monsters should be generally a lot weaker and lower level in pre-renewal.

But maybe I'll do a release with my preferred version eventually.

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Posted (edited)

Hi all, as of today's commit (https://github.com/rathena/rathena/commit/d3cc0c56563769aafd78c976d6e76d83dbf6df88) rAthena will include the pre-renewal jRO Brasilis monster values in YAML format.

If you want to use the bRO values instead (lower ATK), I've attached a YAML file in the original post to overwrite these.

I also corrected the ATK values for jRO in my original release as they were just guessed before and now they use the official values (but that release only works for rAthena 2013-2016).

Edited by Playtester
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